The debate for Kefka and Sephiroth. Whose better?

[EdgarAnTerraFigaro]

Kefka was like a puppeteer, he made those in the Empire his puppets, long before you had your long hair silver loser villain that wanted to destroy the planet because he was such a freaky loser.

Kefka had power before he absorbed the Warning Triad. He was extremely powerful afterward, though.

More in a moment. I want to get to the lower post, to tear it apart.

I believe that Jim Carrey can push three statues like Kefka did, and become "The Most Powerful Being In The World", which means that ANYONE could have done that. Kefka HAD to have got that power. Otherwise, he would've still been the weak, magic using human that he was. So if you ask me, he sort of cheated his way to power.

Jim Carrey? Did you seriously just relate Kefka to a Comedian?

No, not anyone! Did you not see how the Statues were NOT listening to him and NOT being controlled at first? He won over them because he was so POWERFUL and could handle the extremities that came with fusing with the WT.

The power in WT is so great, it could have destroyed him from the inside, literally. WT is so powerful its what makes life exist. Does your Cetra boy have anything like that? No he doesn't!

So, Kefka didn't cheat his way into it. His plan never at first involved fusing with WT, but to harness the sheer power and beam it down on the planet, to control and rule over people.

Sephiroth was EVERYWHERE in FFVII. You didn't know if he was the real thing, or an illusion until you saw him crystalized in a chunk of Materia at the Northern Crater, and he still sent out Sephiroth clones using his own will. You act like burning a town is a small thing, but it really isn't. That day traumatized Cloud so much, that it changed his entire personality. Especially when Aeris died, you hated Sephiroth even more, that you could not wait to finally kill him. He gained control of Black Materia, which summoned the ultimate destructive magic Meteor, which if Cloud and his friends did not stop it in time, would've done what Sephiroth wanted, and became one with the planet itself. Sephiroth's power was virtually unlimited where he could do almost anything he wanted to, since he absorbed the knowledge of the Cetra itself, and gained the power to use magic without having to use Materia.

He sent clones out?...hm, seems a like sissy thing to do when he HAS ALL THE POWER in the world.

Burning the town didn't "traumatized Cloud", he thought it was Zack at the moment. So really, it traumatized Zack, because Cloud was up in the Mako reactor in the mountains with Tifa, remember?
Cloud never got traumatized by anything until he fell into the Life stream or whatever its called.

Black materia seems to me, to be a lot like the powers in the games that used METEORS to come to the planet or to attack the planet. Do you not remember Ex-death's little seal in V?

Kefka's power was even more unlimited. Even if Sephiroth was this One-Winged-Angel you say he is, Kefka was a God, and DEMI-GOD!
That's two millions times stronger and better than a One-Winged-Angel in any bet.

The only thing I think Sephiroth did that was evil, was killing Aerith, who was technically an angel herself.

His Super Nova attack may have been an illusion, but it showed just how much power he had, and I bet he could have made that attack real, and destroyed the galaxy, but of course the hero always wins, so they couldn't do that.

He could, he could, he could have. Hmm...Kefka did what he wanted, Kefka destroyed the world and WT which keeps everything in Balance. The planet was dead and he was its God, he was ONE with the planet before Sephiroth, who never accomplished his job. Bad villain-ary there, SephirothEsper.

I said he PRESUMED she was his mother, obviously she wasn't. Sephiroth tried to destroy the world but failed, It's not his fault Cloud was so strong. No one felt bad for Sephiroth (beside maybe Lucrecia, but she thought he was dead) they all wanted him dead. And Sephiroth wasn't even the one who was killing everybody it was his clone, which shows just how stong he was. You think Sephiroth had remorse for what he did? His facial expressions didn't change whether he was killing someone or just walking down the street. Then again that's how most FF villans are.

-sigh-

Why do you think he was doing this? FOR HIS MOTHER! So he did have feelings whilst he killed the tiny amount of people he murdered. The biggest threat Sephiroth went against, was the giant snake lol

No one wanted him dead; they thought he was a monster and hid that from him or something like. Than he went down to a basement and sulked away like a pansy, reading his books and calculating that his Mother and Hojo made him.

While Kefka found the same thing out! Kefka knew he was way different than the rest, he could do things that no other human being could even possible comprehend of doing! Not even in their dreams!

Sephiroth did too have remorse, or he wouldn't have wanted to be beside his mother as he ruled over the planet.

By messing with your head I don't mean mind control. I mean telling you things to make you look back at yourself. Cloud wasn't the only one he did it to. You guys say Kefka backstabbed people, so did Sephiroth... literally. You know the thing with the President of Shinra. And I don't recall Kefka ever cutting of someone he presumed to be his mother's head. Someone said in some debate (not sure which one) that the fact that Kefka just knows his spells is way cooler than just sticking something into your arm and using the spell. I think not, I don't see how saying a bunch of words would make fire come out of your hands. Kefka's just an insane creepy clown that forgot to take his meds.

Oh yeah and Kefka poisoned castles right? Well Sephiroth poisoned the entire planet, you know geostigma.

Learning magic IS better than sticking an orb into your arm. What if someone knocks em all out? What if you lose em and than get into a battle?
"Oh ****! I don't have my Materia! OH ****Y, OH ****Y!"

You're right. Kefka never cut the head off his mother, he never got the chance. You know, since she and his father beat him and intentionally put him in an Orphanage where he got raped and became insane.

I don't see how saying a bunch of words would make fire come out of your hands. Kefka's just an insane creepy clown that forgot to take his meds.

This is how I can tell your first game was VII. You don't know the old games, you aren't a Final Fantasy fan if you think that way. You're a rabid FFVII fanboy/girl who thinks everything revolves around FFVII, Cloud, Sephiroth and Tifa.

Nope, Kefka isn't a clown, he's a...um..hold on, I'll ask Magitek the right name for it and she'll tell everyone here what IS suppose to be. He doesn't take meds lol no one can control Kefka, he's a demi-god with power to own your little Sephiroth who uses clones, Materia, Black Materia and a few other things that DON'T relate to his own power. I mean seriously, using a meteor and his mother's power as his own? Oh pathetic.

It's not all about Sephiroth's appearance, it's about who he is. Like I said before, I don't care how much any other FF villain before Sephiroth accomplished, it does not make them the best in the world. Yes, those villains were to have said to become extremely powerful as well, but only ONE of those villains kept returning, and I found Sephiroth's backstory to be quite an interesting one. Also, he was not an easy final boss either. It took me like 9 tries to finally beat him because right at the beginning, I used KOTR, then Meteor spells. With Kefka, it only took me one try to watch his purple clowny self disintegrate into pieces. IMO, I think Dancing Mad lasts way too long. In 17 minutes, I can bake a cake, brush my teeth, take out the garbage, visit my friends house, and have a pizza. Mama mia! And yes Kefka doesn't deserve a masterpiece like One-Winged Angel. He's so gangster, they even let the choir say his own name in the song. And Super Nova is scary, as well. He destroys the planets with a comet which heads towards the Sun causing it to expand towards the Earth to blast their HP almost all the way, also causing status ailments. Tell me you wouldn't be afraid if the freaking Sun was going to burn the Earth into bits.

This is why debating fairly with a FFVII rabid fanboy can be very irritating and annoying.

Dancing Madly and Terra's theme are the number most downloaded FF songs and remixed, sung and played FF songs at the moment and have been since 1995. 20 minutes is perfect, because the battle usually last 20 minutes. Unlike Sephiroths that lasts 12 minutes for me.

And yes Kefka doesn't deserve a masterpiece like One-Winged Angel. He's so gangster, they even let the choir say his own name in the song.

Wow, that took a lot to say. You're right! Kefka doesn't match One-Winged Angel. He matches his Last Judgment piece better, you know, the one with more dangerous meaning than "One-Winged Angel" or " SEPHIROTH" being screamed in Latin, not that I don't love Latin.

Kefak could have his name in a choir because of the system it was contained on. Need I remind you that this was 1993-4 where we had SNES that could barely have voice like inputs? Did you know that was Nobuo(?)'s originally intentioned? To put voice in his song? Instead, they found a way to make him laugh in the game, which took a lot of space away from their project.


More later...me eyes hurt!

I'm sorry, but all your theories on Sephiroth being a better villain isn't really good. You can note every ****ing thing Sephiroth did and match it to exactly what Kefka did. You want to know why? Because Sephiroth STOLE everything from Kefka, because KEFKA is the better villain.

The only difference was that people liked Sephiroth more because of the graphics and the release on the new system with "beautiful" cut scenes and more.

EPIC WIN FOR ME!

[Garland]

Sephiroth didn't just steal traits from Kefka... This whole debate made me realize he stole many traits from every other villain thus far!

He stole Garland's immortality
He stole Zande's thirst for revenge
He stole Zeromus's Mind control
He stole Exdeath's main character killing
and everything else he augmented from Kefka.
Add a long sword, long white hair, stir...
and what do you got? Sephiros!

Terra is right, it seems that Zack traumatised Cloud and not Nibelheim's burning, he was just angry at that.
I don't know why you are bringing up Sephiroth's actions if you just said and I quote loosely:
" It doesn't matter what any other villain accomplishes"
So yeah like I said earlier, every villain before him not just Kefka did what Sephiroth did and then some, he's not that special.

Need I remind that Kefka slaughtered hundreds of espers single handedly after killing General Leo, in a remote town much like Nibelheim. Kefka has major Character development even taking out the whole back story thing.
The Empire of Vector is rotten to the core, Kefka is a maniac and a coward. He hides behind the Empires tail coat, but you can clearly see how much power he gains durring the course of the game.
First time you fight him at the camp, he just has a morning star he's practically worse than an imperial soldier, and he runs away too, then when you fight him at Narshe, he has minor spells but is still weak, then you see him extracting the power of espers making him stronger, until he's killing things easily off the bat, and using his will power to make clones and replica's of himself by the time he's at the floating continant, he's farely powerful but not as powerful as Ghestahl once he absorbs the WT's power. Kefka quite ingeniously get's in the middle of the statues thus nullifying any and all spells thrown against him, and by the time he kills Ghestahl he becomes a God.

[MagitekElite]

Need I remind that Kefka slaughtered hundreds of espers single handedly after killing General Leo, in a remote town much like Nibelheim. Kefka has major Character development even taking out the whole back story thing.
The Empire of Vector is rotten to the core, Kefka is a maniac and a coward. He hides behind the Empires tail coat, but you can clearly see how much power he gains durring the course of the game.
First time you fight him at the camp, he just has a morning star he's practically worse than an imperial soldier, and he runs away too, then when you fight him at Narshe, he has minor spells but is still weak, then you see him extracting the power of espers making him stronger, until he's killing things easily off the bat, and using his will power to make clones and replica's of himself by the time he's at the floating continant, he's farely powerful but not as powerful as Ghestahl once he absorbs the WT's power. Kefka quite ingeniously get's in the middle of the statues thus nullifying any and all spells thrown against him, and by the time he kills Ghestahl he becomes a God.

I'm glad I was showed a forum with people who know what their talking about when it comes to VI. I thought I was a lonely freak lol

In the camp, he takes away a lot for the time in the game. That weapon isn't even available until later on, his attacks there are pretty big for the level you're suppose to be.

Yep, Kefka killed all of those Espers, hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of them, in Thamasa and after, while the Returners were either still asleep or traveling the world on their own, thinking their friends were dead.

When Kefka fuses with WT, it really shows how powerful he is, because Celes stabs him in the chest (Read in Adventure Guide Book). Once he fuses, his power grows and grows every second, up until Shadow really does something stupid and completely pushes the statues against Kefka. WT feed Kefka's rage and insanity, therefore creating an Demi-god, one that would rule over and destroy Gaia.
Its said (rumor) Kefka's battle was first to be designed to be 3 hours long, the song would have been endless, so they shortened it down. I would have played against a boss for 3 hours, hell I would have for 12!

Terra is right, it seems that Zack traumatised Cloud and not Nibelheim's burning, he was just angry at that.
So yeah like I said earlier, every villain before him not just Kefka did what Sephiroth did and then some, he's not that special.

Cloud's memory had been altered after suffering from Zack's death. Cloud turned emo after realizing that the only person he knew who cared about him in a brotherly way, was dead whilst he suffered from brain damage or something lol
After Zack's death, Cloud goes on his own, fitting into the hole in the world as Zack, only using his name.

That's why in the Life stream, Cloud goes mental and Tifa helps him through it by going into his mind, showing him he wasn't Zack, but he was Cloud! Which, half the reason, was Tifa's fault for not tellin him! >.<

Sephiroth didn't just steal traits from Kefka... This whole debate made me realize he stole many traits from every other villain thus far!

He stole Garland's immortality
He stole Zande's thirst for revenge
He stole Zeromus's Mind control
He stole Exdeath's main character killing
and everything else he augmented from Kefka.
Add a long sword, long white hair, stir...
and what do you got? Sephiros!

Zande? I don't know about him, but I can certainly give you a list of what Sephiroth stole from our beloved older villains that came from the classic age for Final Fantasy. When the new FF games didn't have to be exactly like FF7 to sell.

EDIT:
Dear god, Terra, that's a very long post! I see you made good with that book?

[Garland]

Well i'm just glad there's another VI fan in our ranks! :P

hahhaaha yeah I almost forgot that Shadow just swooped in and pushed the statues against Kefka. You cannot show that in full 3d without that looking ridiculously silly.

Zande was the main antagonist of FF III (the real one) For those who never played the Famicom or DS version, he was the arch villain but alas was overshadowed by the Deus Ex Machina known as Cloud of Darkness who made it into Dissidia instead.
Zande was unique for being the first FF villain to have some sympathetic qualities to his character, as admitedly, Garland's sudden fall to the darkside was unexplanatory, and Mateus for the most part, was an arrogant power hungry dominatrix from the get go. Zande was one of the three apprentice mages who felt betrayed by his elder after receiving the seemingly useless gift of mortality upon his teacher's death.

Youknow who was bat**** crazy? Seymour. I almost forgot about him xD

[MagitekElite]

Because FFVI rocks!
Shadow did something both stupid and silly lol

Really? I recently started play III on Ds, I don't know anything about it yet.

Yeah, Seymour was insane! He wanted to do things for crazy reasons, now there's a crazy mother ****er lol

[Garland]

lol. It's funny cause he just stands there while he's doing it

Kefka: Hey-hey shadow, what R ya doin' there? Oof, hey... Hey shadow... Shadow! What- that hurts. Stop it! Stop it shadow... Shadow? Are you listening to me, no... don't you move that last statue, dont you, Oww!
xD

:O Oh noes, sorry to make the semi spoiler for you, forget about what I said! Oh well, I've been treated to some hefty VII spilers on this thread anyway. lol

[Bub]

Originally Posted by EdgarAnTerraFigaro

This is how I can tell your first game was VII. You don't know the old games, you aren't a Final Fantasy fan if you think that way. You're a rabid FFVII fanboy/girl who thinks everything revolves around FFVII, Cloud, Sephiroth and Tifa.

Okay VII definitly wasn't my first game. X was, VII was actually my LAST game I just beat it like two weeks ago. I played II, III, IV, XII, X, and X-2 before I even touched VII. You guys think Kefka sooo cool because he destroyed the world or whatever, but just like every other villan he got killed in the end. And his dumbass rebuilt the world leading to his much needed death. I don't have enough time to debate more but I will be back.

[MagitekElite]

X? Lots of people say X is a lot like VII. Only I think its better than VII ^^

You guys think Kefka sooo cool because he destroyed the world or whatever, but just like every other villan he got killed in the end. And his dumbass rebuilt the world leading to his much needed death. I don't have enough time to debate more but I will be back.

You guys think Sephiroth is sooo cool because he wears leather and wanted (failed) to destroy the world and stole things from better villains. But, unlike the rest of the villains, Sephiroth sucked. And his sissy ass plan failed because he was too much of a whiny prissy child with long flowing hair better and longer than my hair with beautiful eyes and rad clothing, leading to his expected - by all players if even if you won't admit Sephiroth was easier than Kefka - death.

But I do have enough time tonight to debate, so I'll be waiting.

@Garland:
You didn't ruin anything for me, I've been playing III. I'm just past the cave were you get the ring to make everyone not ghosts. My file kept dying so I've been stuck at this one part lol

Yeah, I can see all the spoilers. But other people clicking the thread besides us, should know it'll contain spoilers. But we seriously need spoiler codes so we can use spoilers freely.

Kefka: Hey-hey shadow, what R ya doin' there? Oof, hey... Hey shadow... Shadow! What- that hurts. Stop it! Stop it shadow... Shadow? Are you listening to me, no... don't you move that last statue, dont you, Oww!

Ahaha. "Stop it shadow...Shadow? Are you listening to me, no...don't you move that last statue, don't you, oww!" I laughed at that

[Bub]

X is way better than VII. But that's beside the point. Sephiroth was easy, too easy I'll admit that. You're saying Sephiroth is a sissy because his plan failed, well I say Kefka is a sissy because he got raped. I think the only way to end this dispute is to fight it out in Dissidia. When it comes out, we'll end it.

[MagitekElite]

X is great, VI is better than both.

Ahaha, I think not. Dissidia has been calculated wrongly in a lot of places; as in Terra not being able to use her sword as a primary weapon when she was both a spell caster and a Elite. Sephiroth was given a very, very, very, very, very long sword that does HUGE UNFAIR damage in Dissidia. Kefka was made slow, when he would and should have, been super fast. They weakened down all the other characters but stupid FFVII's characters, and that's just wrong!

Would you find a fight against you and I fair if I were using an internal bomb whilst you were using a knife?

This is the debate thread, it'll continue on forever! lol I'd be glad to fight you, if I get Dissidia.

[Bub]

Well I accept your Dissidia challenge, and I respect your will to debate. Kefka isn't weakened down THAT much, his combos are insane. Yet Sephiroth is fast and powerful so he wont lose.

[MagitekElite]

If I get the game, I'll challenge you!
Although, it will not be fair because of how they made Sephiroth a cheat, I will certainly try. But until than, we must fully debate in this thread as one.

[Garland]

From what I retained from the Demo, Terra can easily draw out her sword during an air pursuit battle and fight with that, or her claws in Trance mode.

I also found in the demo that Sephiroth was the hardest out of the five playables to use. He has a weird attack pattern that means, one slip of a button and you're left out in the open. If anything Jecht and CoD are the broken ones.
I still can't find a way to block Kefka's blizzaga explosion attack completely. His attacks are very annoying, but his AI made him a coward so he mostly just runs anyway.
I say poo on the "Tier" system. Even if the NA version didn't equalize the characters, I'd still have enough skill to pwn Sephiroth and Cloud with any character. If you wanna Kefka representative look no further! (Sorry Garland, you'll have to wait for next time =[ )

[MagitekElite]

Yeah, but she should have been able to use her sword just like Cloud and the others who uses a sword.

I thought his attack pattern was very strange as well, but they made him very powerful.
People say Kefka's attacks are hard to get away from a lot. I find that true lol

Garland can wait lol

[Garland]

I dunno, though I agree that Terra is a powerful Physical fighter (her stats and equipment lead her to be a Red Mage type character)

Terra was geared for magic, in opposition to other viable fighter-characters in VI. I gave her the Soul of Thamasa, just because she's my best spell caster. Obviously Dissidia exagerated this. VI was the definetive Magic using game though. Ultima x Quick x Ultima x Ultima x Ultima x Ultima= epic pwn.

[MagitekElite]

^yeah, she could use both greatly. They should have made it so where you could use both, pick a form. Like lets say you pick green haired Terra, you get swords and magic, you pick blond haired Terra you just get powerful magic and her flying ability.

My Terra is a goddess. She can't be beaten. I don't know how, but she absorbed all elements and it heals her...even if she doesn't have anything on o.O

[Bub]

Sephiroth is unbeatable once you get used to him, sorry but Terra sucks. She only has two moves in the demo. I accept your challenge as well Garland.

[Garland]

I'm sorry, but you suck at the demo if you didn't find out that using holy, press O rapidly, cast meteors, then press square, casts Ultima as a third attack. And her double cast exmode ability is the best I've seen so far.
Sephiroth has Heartless Angel which is pretty useless in many cases and leaves him too vulnerable, and having black materia as his only ground attack is dumb.

[Bub]

I'll give you that, I had no clue you could cast Ultima. I did Heartless Angel once by accident, but then i got blocked before I could do anything so I didn't even get to see it. I haven't been able to figure it out since, then again I haven't really researched the game like you probably have.

[Garland]

Actually I didn't research either. I just accidentally did a move and then tried to replicate it. I kept using Heartless Angel cause my hand positions were automatically on the R and Square Buttons. That's how you maually switch between Dark Knight and Paladin as well btw.

Bet you also didn't know that after your second ground brave hit with cliud, if you press square just in time you activate his Finishing Touch move.