The debate for Kefka and Sephiroth. Whose better?

[Bub]

Nope sure didn't, thanks though. If we fight you're probably going to kick my ass, but that doesn't mean I'm backing down.

I CAN NOT get Heartless Angel to work for me.

[Garland]

Have you tried holding the buttons together?

[Bub]

You forgot to mention that you have to be in ex-mode, same with Cecil.

I take back what I said about Terra, I did her Ex-Mode Ultima combo and it destroys.

[MagitekElite]

^Everything about Terra destroys. The only one I have problems beating with her is Garland. He's defense is strong and for some strange reason, he knows what I'm going to do before I do! He constantly blocks me as well >.<
Everyone else is phooey compared to her strength. Onion kicks ass; he's speedy and strong, especially when you build up his bravery points.

On topic:
You know, if they remade FFVI and got the chance to add everything they wanted from before, Kefka would have be a hundred times harder than he is now. His song would have included more voices and his laugh would actually be a laugh, although who doesn't love Kefka's awesome laugh?

If they remade VII, the game would basically be the same. They had the chance to do everything they wanted; extra discs. But they didn't because they stole enough from the past villains.
If they made separate cartridges for FFVI like discs, it would have be awesome!

P.S
TERRA IS THE BEST CHARACTER EVER! Don't EVER say that again! *angry face*

[Bub]

Sorry but I still don't like Terra all that much. And if they remade VII you would be able to tell what the characters are feeling way better than just guessing what tone of voice they say each word in. It would be like a movie with a game wrapped up in it.

By the way Rikku is the best character ever.

[XSephirothEsperX]

Originally Posted by Garland

Sephiroth didn't just steal traits from Kefka... This whole debate made me realize he stole many traits from every other villain thus far!

He stole Garland's immortality
He stole Zande's thirst for revenge
He stole Zeromus's Mind control
He stole Exdeath's main character killing
and everything else he augmented from Kefka.
Add a long sword, long white hair, stir...
and what do you got? Sephiros!

Terra is right, it seems that Zack traumatised Cloud and not Nibelheim's burning, he was just angry at that.
I don't know why you are bringing up Sephiroth's actions if you just said and I quote loosely:
" It doesn't matter what any other villain accomplishes"
So yeah like I said earlier, every villain before him not just Kefka did what Sephiroth did and then some, he's not that special.

Need I remind that Kefka slaughtered hundreds of espers single handedly after killing General Leo, in a remote town much like Nibelheim. Kefka has major Character development even taking out the whole back story thing.
The Empire of Vector is rotten to the core, Kefka is a maniac and a coward. He hides behind the Empires tail coat, but you can clearly see how much power he gains durring the course of the game.
First time you fight him at the camp, he just has a morning star he's practically worse than an imperial soldier, and he runs away too, then when you fight him at Narshe, he has minor spells but is still weak, then you see him extracting the power of espers making him stronger, until he's killing things easily off the bat, and using his will power to make clones and replica's of himself by the time he's at the floating continant, he's farely powerful but not as powerful as Ghestahl once he absorbs the WT's power. Kefka quite ingeniously get's in the middle of the statues thus nullifying any and all spells thrown against him, and by the time he kills Ghestahl he becomes a God.

If Kefka was this so called "God", how come he gets defeated at the end? Some "God".

Sephiroth was such a great villain because so much was established about him before you even saw his face. He was set up as a former war hero and legend that tragically fell into darkness upon learning the truth about his origins and his motives were clear to the player because of this. He was a relatively unconventional villain at the time since Sephiroth was introduced well before the ‘tragic villain’ template became extremely overused in popular media (I’m looking at you Sam Raimi and your three Spider-Man movies). Kefka's most memorable features are his jester-like appearance and his overrated laugh, and, he's crazy. Remind of you of anyone? No it doesn't remind me of DC's most popular villain....nope, not a bit. He isn't a medieval version of The Joker at all. And during almost every encounter over the course of Final Fantasy 6 he sends some lower ranked lackeys to take the hit while he flees like a little wuss. The difference between what Kefka does and other villains (I’ll once again reference Sephiroth) is that Kefka willingly sends out others when he could do it himself, a villain such as Sephiroth had to send out Jenova spawns because he was locked inside a freaking chunk of materia.)

Hell, even when he has a confrontation with Leo (a guy who’s technically on the same side as him) he sends a doppelganger into battle and stabs Leo like a sissy. The only time Kefka actually grows a set is when he’s powered by the Warring Triad statues, which is the equivalent of me saying “I can hit a major league fastball as I step to the plate with a 4 foot wide baseball bat with a steroid syringe hanging off my a**". Villains are supposed to be intimidating and strike fear into you, not cowardly like a comic relief.

Kefka can not be grasped by players like Sephiroth can. What you guys count "errors" in Sephiroth are actually strengths. Sephiroth's backstory makes the player sympathetic toward his cause gives him a strong emotional bond with the player, making the struggle between the game's main characters and the game's villain quite the emotional battle for the player. Just because Kefka succeeds does not make him the best villain: there are plenty of heroes that succeed and don't succeed and this doesn't make them the "best hero."

What makes a good villain is one that the player can relate to, that shows the player dark sides of him/herself and makes the struggle between the main villain and the main hero quite the struggle indeed. It gives more depth to the character and not only labels him in boring black or white terms (like Kefka) but makes him human (which makes him richer, more real, more palpable than Kefka could ever be). No one can relate to someone like Kefka who is just manic and out of his mind for no good reason, but people can relate to Sephiroth who is twisted and sinister for reasons we could all possibly fall victim to.

Sephiroth was not only very human, but was grossly powerful and has The Masamune; The most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy. Because of his popularity, he has even been featured in other games (like Kingdom Hearts) which wasn't something Square has done with Kefka. Why do you think that Square never made a big deal about him, and featured him in those games, hm? Even they realize what's better.

[MagitekElite]

Originally Posted by XSephirothEsperX

If Kefka was this so called "God", how come he gets defeated at the end? Some "God".

Our point is relevant and very simple, SephirothEsper (I'll call you SEsper or Esper through this thing now.).
Kefka IS A GOD, it was said in all; the game, Adventure Guide Book, Character Guide Book and even by the makers. Do you know what they called him and Terra in Dissidia?
Kefka= The Demi-God
Terra= The God-Slayer.

Those are some pretty impressive names, more so than One-Winged Angel. Kefka's plot and motives, even personality, are meant to make people connect to him; he's suffered his whole life, the Empire was like his family, his father and when he was betrayed, he lost it. Celes getting that promotion was the stone thrown into the water, failing to skip - keeping him sane.

Sephiroth was such a great villain because so much was established about him before you even saw his face. He was set up as a former war hero and legend that tragically fell into darkness upon learning the truth about his origins and his motives were clear to the player because of this. He was a relatively unconventional villain at the time since Sephiroth was introduced well before the ‘tragic villain’ template became extremely overused in popular media.
Kefka's most memorable features are his jester-like appearance and his overrated laugh, and, he's crazy. Remind of you of anyone? No it doesn't remind me of DC's most popular villain....nope, not a bit. He isn't a medieval version of The Joker at all. And during almost every encounter over the course of Final Fantasy 6 he sends some lower ranked lackeys to take the hit while he flees like a little wuss. The difference between what Kefka does and other villains (I’ll once again reference Sephiroth) is that Kefka willingly sends out others when he could do it himself, a villain such as Sephiroth had to send out Jenova spawns because he was locked inside a freaking chunk of materia.)

First things first, Esper, a lot (way more than Sephiroth) was established before you even saw Kefka's face (sprite) in FFVI. You learn that his such a sadistic (some say he's even masochistic) insane man in his later 30s who has gets pleasure from torturing a 6 year old girl with green hair and a large heart. He would spend his free time (whenever he wasn't out burning, killing, betraying...things like that) torturing not only normal people (NPCs and more) he would be destroying Terra's mental state, as a fcking child no less!
He would build her up as a child to something, let me use an example.

He would build her up to be a (remember, I'm using an example of what I mean so you know what I'm talking about) a artist, a brilliant one. And when he got her to that level, he'd tear her down from that high pedestal he gave her and rebuild her to something else.

To put it simply enough for you and whoever didn't understand what I said, he'd make her believe things that wasn't true; he'd fill her little mind with comfortable pictures and lies and than in one flat second of rage, would rip that comfort away from her and do it all over again -- Which fcked her mind up to the brink of losing it before the crown was put on her head.

There is a reason they say he is a Doll Master. He collected them because he loved order, control, power and most of all, thinking he could make things do exactly as he wanted, thinking he could make TERRA do exactly what he wanted. When she showed signs of losing her mind and still not listening to him, he decided it was time to place the crown on her head: shortly after she was 15/16, when she was a shell of who she use to be.

Ahahah, that's what makes Kefka so evil! He used his men like they were tools, he tossed them out like they were dirt. He made them fight and die for him and they listened because they were frightened of him, because EVEN they said he was a sick monster.

Kefka is a coward, a evil, nasty, sick, monstrous cowardly villain, who literally burned people alive if they didn't do as he said.

Which is another thing Sephiroth stole from Kefka; burning down a village. HAHA! Sephiroth has no material for himself to use, he's a thief.

Hell, even when he has a confrontation with Leo (a guy who’s technically on the same side as him) he sends a doppelganger into battle and stabs Leo like a sissy. The only time Kefka actually grows a set is when he’s powered by the Warring Triad statues, which is the equivalent of me saying “I can hit a major league fastball as I step to the plate with a 4 foot wide baseball bat with a steroid syringe hanging off my a**". Villains are supposed to be intimidating and strike fear into you, not cowardly like a comic relief.

What? No, no, no, no! Leo wasn't on KEFKA'S side, he was on the side the Emperor and Kefka made up for him. Leo was told over and over again and thought to believe, the Emperor cared all along. That he was killing the Espers to protect their worlds and people from them. Leo clearly thought the Empire had respect, compassion and more. He found out this wasn't true in Thamasa, when Kefka murders over 1000 or more Espers, and than some.

He used no such thing! He was himself, he used a (let's just say Jutsu[?]) Jutsu to transform into the Emperor to show Leo how stupid and pathetic looking he was for believing in the rights of the world, that the Empire wasn't corrupt and held no poison to feed to him. Leo found out he was feed beautiful lies and has had enough! He became raged even more when he saw Celes and Terra treated badly, who were like children to him. That's when he charged into battle, sword ah-zappin!
HE NEVER USED A DOPPELGANGER! DUH!

Kefka has more balls than Sephiroth. Kefka faced the creators of the universe! The Warning Triad! All by himself and even tempted to control them and fight them! If that wasn't enough, he fused with them! That's taking it very far, he was tempting and flirting with the end of his life when he did that.

That's also why we love Kefka and think he is better than Spehiroth. I'm sorry, but Sephiroth didn't strike me as evil. He was doing what he thought he was created for; destroying the planet and fusing with it or whatever. The only evil thing he did, was killing Aerith, who was an angel protecting Gaia.

Kefka had all of those: he was evil and funny, just like the Joker! They chose to slightly model him after the Joker, because the Joker found no remorse in what he did, no bad feelings - nothing. He was also a "comic relief.".
I'd fear the one with the actual power, the one who actually killed millions of people, the one that succeeded in destroying the planet. Kefka did things no other villain but a select few have ever done before and took it to extremes.

Kefka can not be grasped by players like Sephiroth can. What my opponent counts as "errors" in Sephiroth are actually strengths. Sephiroth's backstory makes the player sympathetic toward his cause gives him a strong emotional bond with the player, making the struggle between the game's main characters and the game's villain quite the emotional battle for the player. Just because Kefka succeeds does not make him the best villain: there are plenty of heroes that succeed and don't succeed and this doesn't make them the "best hero."

Kefka had the same kind of backstory. You wouldn't know that because you were biased and probably never really played FFVI or read the books. You spend all your time on just one game, while the rest of us try to learn things about all the FF games. I try to learn stuff from III, II and IX. I can look into other things but 7, something you and many others can't seem to do.

When a player plays FFVI, they can really understand and feel for every character and villain. Because each one had someone, been wronged by the Empire. Kefka, Terra, Locke, Edgar/Sabin, Relm, Shadow, Cyan, Mog, Setzer, Celes and more. Every single person you come across has suffered from the Empire.
Tell me if you want more of this information.

What makes a good villain is one that the player can relate to, that shows the player dark sides of him/herself and makes the struggle between the main villain and the main hero quite the struggle indeed. It gives more depth to the character and not only labels him in boring black or white terms (like Kefka) but makes him human (which makes him richer, more real, more palpable than Kefka could ever be). No one can relate to someone like Kefka who is just manic and out of his mind for no good reason, but people can relate to Sephiroth who is twisted and sinister for reasons we could all possibly fall victim to.

What part of Kefka's backstory did you not understand? I'm gonna have to quote most of it, won't I? I sure Terra already "tried" to tell you, but I will try. But first, let's see if a quote would do good here.

Actually, Kefka was beaten and (please highlight next text) raped by his orphange's head master back in Thamasa.
So, he was beaten and raped so badly. After, he joined the army, moved up ranks and got his job besides the Emperor. Than, after getting his first injection - which came after Celes'- he went star crazy. He snapped and killed another high ranked person in the Emperor's high court.
Finding this out, made the Emperor lower Kefka down some ranks, and in turn, he gave that said job to Leo. Now Kefka is just a court mage or something like that. And if this wasn't bad enough, Kefka learns that Celes reaches a very high rank - Admiral - and finally snaps!
Now you now the Kefka of today in a short summary ^^ I hope you enjoyed it.

Are you going to tell me you don't feel for what Kefka went through? Because if you don't feel bad for Kefka, than something is seriously wrong with you. *worried look*

Sephiroth was not only very human, but was grossly powerful and has The Masamune; The most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy. Because of his popularity, he has even been featured in other games (like Kingdom Hearts) which wasn't something Square has done with Kefka. Why do you think that Square never made a big deal about him, and featured him in those games, hm? Even they realize what's better.

^Wow, speculating something that isn't even true. I will tell you exactly why they didn't feature some characters. Noruma(?) made Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Setzer. They couldn't feature the other FFVI characters because they didn't own as much of the rights to the characters as they did to FFVII characters. The only reason Edgar and Sabin wasn't in the games, was because the woman who made them probably wouldn't allow them to do it. Second! There are weird, freaky, obsessed FFVII fanboy/girls that would kill their own parents to get a another glimpse at Sephiroth and Cloud. When FFVII first came out, everyone was hyped about the graphics before they could play it, than when it came out, a lot of those FFVII players started on that series, the series after the old, classic REAL FF games. So they are biased....

So, do answer that very, very, very stupid thing you just said, they did it for MONEY and because they didn't own the rights to put other characters in it.
They would have put Kefka in it if they owned full rights and if they knew how to make him look. They settled with Setzer, because they OWNED him and could easily make him in the game, simple features that looked like him.

THEY WANTED MONEY! THEY DIDN'T DO IT BECAUSE SEPHIROTH IS BETTER! Do you know what the FF team thinks about the FF series? Do you know who are their favorite characters? Their favorite characters are:
Bartz, Faris, Terra, Cloud (sadly I still love Cloud and sadly he was picked), Squall, Rosa, Cecil and Zidane/Kuja. NO ****ING SEPHIROTH IN THERE!
Although I admit Kefka ain't int here either, but they did say they liked him wayyy more than Sephiroth because of his character and his plot against the world and Returners, and that he was a true villain; a better villain!

Read more about that kind of stuff before you post crap that doesn't even have prove. This is a debate, not a place to store crappy information that has no prove. Please refrain from doing so, EdgaranTerraFigaro did ask me and Garland to moderate this thread. You have to post prove, not speculations and "rumors" you and other FF7 rabid fanboys/girls made up.

I'm using prove, prove from the books made by SE before the game was out. So I know its real and not changed to fuel FF7 fans against each other, like love triangle debates.

P.S
I can't be biased, I didn't start on VI or VII, I started on FFI and FFVIII, I was too poor back than to afford VII. I got it 7/5 years ago and it just now broke on me, well the last disc, but whatever!

I'm gonna edit this as well...but I have a novel to work on, so it'll have to wait a bit do reply though ^^

[Garland]

SephEsper, do you even know what a villain's properties are???

Ever hear about a guy by the name of Adolf Hitler!? If people sprinkled fairy dust all over his character, and made him out to be a poor starving artist grasping for Justice for his beloved homeland, no one could ever call him the hated man he is today!
"Villains" are actually meant to be seperated from your sympathies, they are supposed to think and act on a completely different level that you can never grasp, so you don't feel bad for them.

You Actually said so yourself that Sephiroth doesn't have any redeeming factors about his character, yet now you're going on about how much he was wronged in life and how you should feel sorry for him?

As I said before, Kefka is the superior VILLAIN, because you want him dead! You want revenge! Sephiroth is such a diluded villain and made to be way too appealing that you'd rather hack the game and have him in your party! (I wouldn't cause he's lame)

There's been Gods before in the Final Fantasy series, The Undying in XII for a recent example, they can be killed.
But see, unlike myself, you don't seem to refference or even listen too any information from other Final Fantasy's, you just ignore everything and Say the SAME THING on what you said earlier about him, AGAIN without explaining what makes him a good villain, you just say what he did or what people think about him.

I've already said, Zande is the first sympathetic villain so shut up trying to pass Sephiroth up as that!
All Final Fantasies that get sequels give the prior Main villain some recoil factor, I.E. they rise from the dead. Sephiroth is no different.

Amano's favorite character is Faris

Nomura's favorite character is Bartz

The original developer's favorite game in the series was IX

You said it yourself!!! Sephiroth is only popular with you guys because he generates enough income. Sephiroth has been in over 12 different media. He's an Icon, no more! You fanatics find him popular because of his looks, so the game developers profit off of every single thing they sell with his ugly ass face on it!

I can come to the conclusion that you are not a worthy debater to try and prove Sephiroth's epicness. I was really hoping for one such individual. But instead you are another fanboy raving about his unquestioned non existant awesomeness.

[MagitekElite]

^ o.O wow, Garland lol

I like debating with Bub, he brings in some information rather than his feelings about the game.

Amano's favorite character is Faris
Nomura's favorite character is Bartz

Yep, Amano's fav character is Faris, he favroit to draw and create was Terra ^^
Yuppie again, about Nomura.

I wanted Sephiroth on my team, I never actually wanted to kill him until he killed Aerith, but even than, he didn't represent much of a challenge for me *shakes head*

As I said before, Kefka is the superior VILLAIN, because you want him dead! You want revenge! Sephiroth is such a diluded villain and made to be way too appealing that you'd rather hack the game and have him in your party! (I wouldn't cause he's lame)

Now I know why Terra (our friend) loved you lol
You're great at helping debate for FFVI ^^ I'm not alone anymore! *YAY*

[Garland]

*High Fives*
(The two then stare off against the brooding horde of FF VII fanboys.)
*Gulp*

[MagitekElite]

*Cowers in fear*
("Not the FFVII fanboys! Noooooooo!")
*gets throttled and jumped on by FFVII fanboys and beaten to death with rubbish FFVII prove* lol
We rock ^^ I can't wait for Bub and anyone to debate with us I love debating.

On topic:
Did anyone else notice that Sephy also stole the "burning a village down" part from Kefka and Golbez. (I'm saying Golbez because I forgot how to spell the real villains name and because in IV they burned down Mystia[?]) I forgot the name of the town lol

[Garland]

Yes, prepare for epic flaming from Bub and Sephiroth.

RE: Yes you did spell Golbez correctly, unless you were reffering to Zemus/ Zeromus.
True, although one could say that it was Cecil's fault that Mysidia burned down. Also Celes did actually burn down Maranda.
But I think Credit once again goes to Emperor Mateus Palamecia, as he burned down Fynn in the opening cinamatic of the second game long before anyone else did.
Even though II had a flawed leveling system, I must say, looking back, it had one of the best Stories and themes in the series. At least for it's time.

[Bub]

First off, I'll admit (no matter how much I don't want to) you guys are whipping my ass. I haven't played VI, so I had to read into it to get info for this debate, which is why I can't really get a good feel for Kefka.

You said it yourself!!! Sephiroth is only popular with you guys because he generates enough income. Sephiroth has been in over 12 different media. He's an Icon, no more! You fanatics find him popular because of his looks, so the game developers profit off of every single thing they sell with his ugly ass face on it!

I will say this though, I had no idea Sephiroth ever existed before I played Crisis Core. Which is why I liked him so much, because they built him up BIG time in that game then threw him down before you knew what was happening. That's why Sephiroth is my favorite villain, that's also why Crisis Core is my second favorite game.

I just helped you guys out a little bit so f**k it I'll leave with this.

Sephiroth was not only very human, but was grossly powerful and has The Masamune; The most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy. Because of his popularity, he has even been featured in other games (like Kingdom Hearts) which wasn't something Square has done with Kefka. Why do you think that Square never made a big deal about him, and featured him in those games, hm? Even they realize what's better.

You f**ked us over right there. Reason being, that's what everyone wanted. Everyone is IN LOVE with Sephiroth, so they pretty much HAD to put him in the KH games. If it was the other way around and everyone would killl for the chance to see a guy dressed up like Kefka, they would have gotten him in the game.

So have fun, I'll admit I lose. Didn't see that one coming did you? Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Garland]

A noble Resignation Bub, as Cecil put it: "You fought bravely"

I agree though, Crisis core was an awesome game, by far the best of the VII spin off's, I especially liked how everyone was happy in the begining and not all brooding like in the original.

I have stated before that technically I never played through VII. But I guess that's a different story with VII than it would be with VI, since I've played all the compilation games and have a pretty good feel for who Sephiroth is.

So Sephiroth, it's 2 on 1 now.

[XSephirothEsperX]

Okay guys, it's pretty obvious that we are wasting our time debating on this. You know why? Because they're both the two greatest villains in FF History. Despite what I have said about Kefka, I can't deny that I like him like you guys do. Otherwise, I wouldn't have played through all of FFVI and the GBA remake of FFVI, learning Dancing Mad on the keyboard, and buying a Kefka Master Creatures figure which is in my closet. There's nothing worth comparing the two. They are entirely different characters in entirely different worlds, both having different sets of resources and things to exploit. Neither villain is "terrible" compared to another. It's a Moot point. Yes I admit Kefka did take over the world, but he failed to maintain it. He also failed to kill the main crew and destroy existence, which he very well could have as it was his goal. His arrogance, like Sephiroth, is what proved to be his undoing in the end. Also, there's no rule that states a villain had to do a lot to obtain a goal. It doesn't matter if Kefka did more. He had to, otherwise his plans would've fallen through the gutter much earlier in the story.

Sephiroth didn't need to do much in his world. They are all great in their own unique way. Kefka is remembered for what he did, and Sephiroth is remembered for what he did as well. And if they teamed up together, they would end all humanity and existence together. And also, I may add they have the best boss themes I've ever heard in a video game.

I've enjoyed both FFVI and FFVII, as well as FFV, and they're great games with different situations happening in them that makes those villains memorable and awesome.

I'm done debating, so let's just get back to enjoying Final Fantasy as a whole and agree to disagree. Besides, in the end, it's Final Fantasy. Let's all just be one big happy fanbase for once, you know?

I end this post with a short RP

Sephiroth: I will never be a memory...

Kefka: -pops his head up- NEITHER WILL I!!!! UWEE-HEE-HEE!!!!!

Sephiroth: -smirks- You are quite a crazy one....heh.

Kefka: Why thank you!! You aren't so bad yourself, Seph!!!!! Now c'mon, let's go destroy everything!!!

Sephiroth:..Very well....-his black wing comes out and he disappears-

Kefka: -whistles for a taxi-

Taxi: You called?

Kefka:..-smashes it with a hammer- HEE-HEE!!!! Who needs a dumb taxi?! I can fly too! WAIT FOR ME!!! -follows Sephiroth-

End. Now, I will eat some cheese.

[MagitekElite]

Originally Posted by Garland

Yes, prepare for epic flaming from Bub and Sephiroth.

RE: Yes you did spell Golbez correctly, unless you were reffering to Zemus/ Zeromus.
True, although one could say that it was Cecil's fault that Mysidia burned down. Also Celes did actually burn down Maranda.
But I think Credit once again goes to Emperor Mateus Palamecia, as he burned down Fynn in the opening cinamatic of the second game long before anyone else did.
Even though II had a flawed leveling system, I must say, looking back, it had one of the best Stories and themes in the series. At least for it's time.

Silly. I was talking about when Kefka made Terra burn down a village in the beginning, remember? Celes burned down Miranda, Terra burned town an unknown (due to Kefka never mentioning the name) village with hundreds of people.
I believe it was Tzen, because they mentioned her work in the town's new low economy due to a "fire". So it has to be Tzen ^^

Also....I LOVED IT WHEN MATEUS BURNED LYNN DOWN

@Esper:

This is debate to prove which side we think is better. You guys shouldn't take it personally, we're being fair. We are debating ^^
Although....

Neither villain is "terrible" compared to another. It's a Moot point. Yes I admit Kefka did take over the world, but he failed to maintain it. He also failed to kill the main crew and destroy existence, which he very well could have as it was his goal. His arrogance, like Sephiroth, is what proved to be his undoing in the end. Also, there's no rule that states a villain had to do a lot to obtain a goal. It doesn't matter if Kefka did more. He had to, otherwise his plans would've fallen through the gutter much earlier in the story.

No, they are both great villains. We were debating and discussing which we prefer and believe, is better. Our points are drive by our prove and need to explain what makes our Kefka better than your Sephiroth. I'm not saying Sephy isn't bad at what he does, that he is bad at being a villain.

Kefka had ignorance, yes. But that's not what caused his downfall at all. What caused his down fall, was -drumroll- the Returners' belief in hope, life, friends, family, loyalty and love in each other. These special powers the Returners received in the moment of glory, created their ultimate strength.

~Also, there's no rule that states a villain had to do a lot to obtain a goal. It doesn't matter if Kefka did more. He had to, otherwise his plans would've fallen through the gutter much earlier in the story.~

Yes there is. What do you think makes a villain? The long hair, clothes and ridiculously long sword? It matters on what you accomplished as a villain and how many times you did it, not matter if it is new or not.

Its not about wanting to go rule the world with your dead mother's head

[Garland]

She burned down a town too? I thought She burned a bunch of Magitek armored soldiers...? Which scene in the game was it revealed that she burned down a town?

Kefka's downfall wasn't that he was arrogant, he was arrogant as most villains are, but he was simply fighting against a power that could never be destroyed. He was way too high strung by the end of it.

lol, if Kefka "Teamed up" with Sephiroth, we all know what would happen. Kefka would turn on Sephiroth at the last second, murder him, then drink the planet dry of the Life Stream and *rambles on*

Well I guess this debate is slowing down.
Let me leave with a final "Theme" of each Final Fantasy.

I- it's theme was about Destiny
II- it's theme was about Man's responcibility and use of Power
III- it's theme was about Balance
IV- it's theme was about the power of Emotion
V- it's theme was about... um... Morphing Time?
VI- it's theme was about Humanity's persistance
VII- it's theme was about Taking care of the Planet.
VIII- it's theme was about love
IX- It's theme was about Life and Existance
X- It's theme was about Choosing the harder path
XI- It's theme was about *Mumbles*
XII- It's theme was about The Barrier between Man and God.

[MagitekElite]

@Garland:
Yes, she burns down a town. In a better version, you can actually see the buildings on fire. Here is a pretty good video to show you. I'll try to get another one. Click me to see it. Embedding isn't allowed. Its around 3:40 to 4:30. In the book, it references to a town and that Tzen suffered from something identical.

Kefka's downfall wasn't that he was arrogant, he was arrogant as most villains are, but he was simply fighting against a power that could never be destroyed. He was way too high strung by the end of it.

lol, if Kefka "Teamed up" with Sephiroth, we all know what would happen. Kefka would turn on Sephiroth at the last second, murder him, then drink the planet dry of the Life Stream and *rambles on*

That's what I said >.>

If Kefka did team up with Sephy, we would have problems IF they could cooperate. But thay can't, so Kefka would be plotting to take Sephiroth down, Sephiroth would be thinking if Kefka was up to something. They would both be screwd.

I- it's theme was about Destiny
II- it's theme was about Man's responcibility and use of Power
III- it's theme was about Balance
IV- it's theme was about the power of Emotion
V- it's theme was about... um... Morphing Time?
VI- it's theme was about Humanity's persistance
VII- it's theme was about Taking care of the Planet.
VIII- it's theme was about love
IX- It's theme was about Life and Existance
X- It's theme was about Choosing the harder path
XI- It's theme was about *Mumbles*
XII- It's theme was about The Barrier between Man and God.

Ahaha, nice chart you made Garland Matches very well ^^

NO! DON'T END THE THREAD! We'll keep it up encase we get members who want to debate. Please don't close it...

[Garland]

Originally Posted by MagitekElite

@Garland:
Yes, she burns down a town. In a better version, you can actually see the buildings on fire. Here is a pretty good video to show you. I'll try to get another one. Click me to see it. Embedding isn't allowed. Its around 3:40 to 4:30. In the book, it references to a town and that Tzen suffered from something identical.

Ummm, that wasn't a town, that Was Terra's massacre of 50 imperial soldiers, which happened in Vector. It even discusses it in the opening scene of the game.

Yes this thread will stay on so long as people still wish to discuss Kefka and Sephy in the future.

[Bub]

XI- It's theme was about *Mumbles*

Haha, I think Square needs to wipe that disaster from existence. Along with the idea that XIV should be an online game.