Delete a Fantasy

[Jenova]

X-2 was epic failure.

I'd like to get rid of all of those VII spin-offs that will be just as if not more retarded than X-2 or that alread y are [Dirge of Cerebus]

[Larsa]

FFX-2 may be an epic failure but one game that I think shouldn't be in there even more is the DIrge of Ceberus. Gun games with FF don't mix well AT ALL!

[The Man]

I'd get rid of Mystic Quest. I'd also be partial to deleting FFVII, not so much out of a dislike for the game itself as for certain elements of its fanbase.

[Larsa]

Well I'd say any game in general of the FFs with a high originality.

[Vinosec]

I'd get rid of X-2 that game was not good at all. It was boring and I never want to play it again.

[Angry Bear]

Originally Posted by The Man

I'd get rid of Mystic Quest. I'd also be partial to deleting FFVII, not so much out of a dislike for the game itself as for certain elements of its fanbase.

QFT!!!

I'd be happy for any spin-off to be removed really, they were all substandard.

[Oti]

Well, I was young when FFX-2 came out, so I didn't have much of a manly essence. I now see it was too much... yeah... prepy.

But, it wasn't a bad game. Not really good like FFX or of course not like FFVII, but the battle system was fun.

[Jenova]

Originally Posted by The Man

I'd also be partial to deleting FFVII, not so much out of a dislike for the game itself as for certain elements of its fanbase.

That's a great point. Some of the fanbase is just frightening.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Larsa

Well I'd say any game in general of the FFs with a high originality.

you do mean low originality, correct?

[Ashley]

I'd get rid of FFVII just to piss off the fan boys/girls.

[Spira]

i was never fond of the Crystal Chronicles,but if it had to be from the main series probably FF2 because its gameplay was too quirky.

X-2 was a good game. It didnt fail and actually sold really well. Storyline might have been kitschy (but FF5 was way worse) it did offer solid gameplay.

XI is an undeniably good game. Most FF series fans who diiss it haven't played it.

[The Man]

FF5 was nowhere near as kitschy as FFX-2 was. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Spira]

No? The main villian is an evil tree. OMG! That would have to be the main flaw of the story. The villian has no motive. What is the point of consuming the whole world? "Because I'm evil" just isn't justifiable. At least Kefka was a maniac.

The story is riddled with plotholes and cliches, such as how the meteors linking the two worlds come to be in the first place. And that it was such a hassle for people from the 2nd world to travel to the first, but oh its gonna be so much easier for you to get across. The story failed in the way that it was a series of TOO MANY strung together coincidences, many of which didn't even make sense. V also suffered from the worse plot cliches.

I'll give V credit for having a superb gameplay/battle system as the Job system found in it was a revolutionary step in RPG and a style that would find itself repeated albeit modified, in future FFs. However, for the most part, FFV was as good as rehashing FFIII and IV. Airships that can serve as submarines, flying chocobo, an underground entrance to Odin. Crystals that gave jobs. 2 realities with alternate set of the same crystals. Understandably its fine to take elements from previous FFs since they follow in 'tradition' of sort, but this was ridiculous. It was as if they ran out of ideas for things and just decided to reuse those from 3 and 4. Even IX did a better job at paying homage to the series than this.

[The Man]

I don't think the word "kitschy" means what you think it does. It is used to label art with an exaggerated sense of melodrama and sentimentality, and while FFV's story contains many flaws, that is not one of them. Moreover, many of the "clichés" were not clichés at the time the game was made. While nowadays killing off a playable character is considered passé, FFV was one of the very first games to do so. (FFIV had done so as well, but [spoiler]Tellah[/spoiler] was nowhere near as central to FFIV's plot as [spoiler]Galuf[/spoiler] was to FFV's).

As far as villain characterisation goes, Exdeath is used to represent the essence of Nihilism, and he is evil because Enuo created him to be a force of destruction. It's all pretty clearly spelled out in, I believe, that town that's frozen in the Void. (Mirage, was it?) As to Enuo's motivation, that's anybody's guess, but that's equally as much motivation as is ascribed to Zemus or the villains of any other previous FF game. FFVI was the first game that even attempted to give villains a realistic source of motivation, and Square didn't really begin to succeed with that until probably FFIX.

Moreover, most of the "coincidences" you speak of only seem questionable on a first playthrough. In reality, many of them had been clearly orchestrated by characters in the past. If you're going to nitpick FFV's story as thoroughly as you're doing, you could just as easily do the same to FFIV's or FFVII's or FFX's or FFX-2's or just about any other entry in the series.

[Ashes]

FFX-2

It was just plain unnecessary, and nowhere near the quality the first sequel to a Final Fantasy should have been. However the same could be said about Advent Children, but that's not a game.

[Spira]

Originally Posted by The Man

I don't think the word "kitschy" means what you think it does. It is used to label art with an exaggerated sense of melodrama and sentimentality, and while FFV's story contains many flaws, that is not one of them. Moreover, many of the "clichés" were not clichés at the time the game was made. While nowadays killing off a playable character is considered passé, FFV was one of the very first games to do so. (FFIV had done so as well, but [spoiler]Tellah[/spoiler] was nowhere near as central to FFIV's plot as [spoiler]Galuf[/spoiler] was to FFV's).

I would believe the definition of kitschy to me is quite different than it is to you, but understandably so because kitschy can encompass a variety of meanings when used on different subjects.The general definition of kitschy is definitely there - of melodrama and sentimentality - FFV was scripted like a cartoon, but perhaps this has been improved as I've not played the GBA iteration. Kitsch can also be used to describe art that is overly formulaic and a repetition of what was done in the past. FFV definitely suffered from this through the parts of the game that seemed directly lifted from III and IV. The movement of the story just wasnt very creatively done. It felt like they were simply pushing you on from 1 short story arc to another. Granted alot of older stories did that, at least they were the first few to do it.

The cliches I mention aren't so much RPG cliches most of the time than they are story cliches. Stuff like the guy who forgot everything but still knew what he had to go do and the close relative is a bloody world hero but just keeps his trap shut until its necessary.

By the way, FFVs killing off of a playable character was as good as a member swap. Death is supposed to be accompanied with some form of loss and you'd have to be especially partial to [spoiler]that old man to really care about him dying considering Krile starts off with whatever he has. If Krile started from scratch, maybe I'd have felt it[/spoiler].

But perhaps I need to replay FFV in the GBA iteration because the PS1 version left a sour taste as far as story/plot was concerned. I don't think X-2 really needs any defending because it's received a ton of flak from conventionalists who felt it was out of place when everything that was 'wrong' about the sequel was planned for. In terms of FF lineology X-2 doesn't count as a part of the main series (it is a spin-off, just like the CoFF7 titles and Revenant Wings) and should be excused from certain expectations.

[The Man]

The PlayStation version also had an awful translation, so that's probably part of the reason you hated it. If you can't get your hands on a copy of the GBA version, then there's also a rather good third-party translation of the original SNES ROM that I can PM you.

Yes, FFV incorporates plot elements used in previous FF games, but they all do to some extent. For example:



As far as amnesiacs and stuff like that, I don't think those are nearly as much general story clichés as they are RPG clichés, but I have to confess I've done my best to avoid reading formulaic fantasy. I've never read Goodkind, Brooks, etc. (well I tried reading Goodkind and the fourth time I threw the book across the room in disgust I decided to give up on it) so maybe those show up a lot with authors like that.

and [spoiler]Galuf[/spoiler] was the coolest playable character in the game so a lot of people were really quite disappointed about [spoiler]his death[/spoiler], but again the **** translation on Anthology probably spoiled that for you.

The criticism of FFX-2 isn't so much over the changes themselves, it's over the fact that the way they're executed is, in its detractors' opinion, completely lacking in the substance fans have come to expect from the Final Fantasy series.

[Spira]

was kefka ever the prototype for magicite experiments? I can't remember..

I think for detractors of FFX-2, its pretty unfair to judge it heavily based on expectations. Especially if a fair opinion is to be established, the important thing is mainly to weigh the pros and cons of the game itself, instead of choosing to compare so much. FFX2 is an exceedingly fun game. Its more fun than FFXIIs gameplay thats for sure. Storywise it is lacking in some sense, but it was never really meant to be that serious, if you notice by the way the girls acts. It makes for a great light-hearted kind of RPG experience which is rare when you consider how most stories like to lay the 'this is a serious issue plot' for more story credibility. Its quite important that at some point you have to forget the title of the game and play it as it is, and in this aspect X2 is a shining example of a great game in any other instance that just simply doesn't live up to an even greater name (when we talk about expectations)

[The Man]

Kefka was indeed the prototype for magicite experiments.

I suppose FFX-2 was fine if the only thing you cared about was gameplay, but most of us expect decent plots and character development from Final Fantasy games as well, and in these respects it fell drastically short.

[sephirothfan]

i have to say ff ix because it seemed too short for a four disk game