End of the UK?

[Trav]

This is a topic I have great interest in, and some passion but I'm leaving that out for the sake of this.

This is probably mainly targeted at UK residents as US/Canadians wont have a clue whats going on but let me enlighten you:

2 months time is the Scottish Elections, hypothetically if either of the Nationalist parties win they will hold a referendum to break Scotland off from the rest of the UK.


Ok that's the background, the discussion here:

The labour government both scottish and english are totally against this, but a bit hypocritcal and very shady about the whole subject. Any break in countries means a break in parties, this is also true for the conservative party.
Now SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party) is growing and growing in support its main focus is an independent Scotland. It also to an extend wants England to be its own country too. There is lots of good reasons why the UK shouldn't be united anymore, the four countries involved are all worlds apart. Each one has their own problems yet our funding is split. All of the money floods to London and then distributed back to everyone. Yet that holds soooo many problems as most of the people in power in London are English. England is seen as the primary country of the UK because it holds the seat of power, the other 3 countries (one an ex-warzone, one the most violent and drug centres in Europe, and one closely following behind) are safe to say neglicated suffering insufficient funding to tackle their problems.

In Scotland there is a mountain of problems both with problems on the streets and from a split government. For example, Scotland holds all the UKs nuclear weapons. If Scotland is no longer part of the UK then what of these weapons? They were in Scotland for a reason in that its low populated. The North Sea oil is running out but it's not finished yet, if Scotland were seperate they funding south of the border would be cut significantly not all but a large percentage. Oil is the source of the UKs wealth.

I'm not going to list everything cause it leaves no room for discussion, but this thread is maybe a little experiment too.

UK seperation yay or nay?

[Larsa]

It would be interesting and a little confusing I think for the general public. I'd have to look a little bit into this before I would give a certain answer.

[The Man]

I can certainly see why a lot of Scottish people want their independence. I don't know enough about the politics of the region to be able to say for sure how much it would destabilize the (potentially former) UK, but assuming it wouldn't cause too much havoc I can't really see it in myself to oppose them.

[Reynard Struan]

I can see the cultural differences causing people to want independence, but look at what separation has done to the former Yugoslavia. They had what the East Slavs want, and they pissed it all away over differences even a child could see are minor. Now the closest thing that exists to Slavic unity is the Tbilsi-Kyiv axis. Split up the UK, and the next thing you know it'll be the Scottish and Irish against the English. Again.

[YopY]

I dunno really. Most country separations I know of are those in poorer, less stable countries. From an external point of view, the UK seems relatively stable.

I personally think that it might work for at least a while, as long as the separation is supported by the greater majority of the Scottish, and doesn't cause a national war - cause neither side will get an advantage from that.

[Jak]

**** the Scots then, the Welsh and the Irish can bugger off too. England could hold up on it's own.

[Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Reynard Struan

I can see the cultural differences causing people to want independence, but look at what separation has done to the former Yugoslavia. They had what the East Slavs want, and they pissed it all away over differences even a child could see are minor. Now the closest thing that exists to Slavic unity is the Tbilsi-Kyiv axis. Split up the UK, and the next thing you know it'll be the Scottish and Irish against the English. Again.

Your talking middle ages there, the bond between Scotland and Ireland is still there culturally, but the Irish and Scottish governments ganging up on the English, I don't think so.

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Jak

**** the Scots then, the Welsh and the Irish can bugger off too. England could hold up on it's own.

We'll soon see, medical technologies, harvesting of oil, banking are all done in Scotland. State of the art medical research is done at Aberdeen and Edinburgh, the UKs oil is dealt with at Aberdeen port, The Royal Bank Of Scotland is the biggest bank in Europe. If England loses its place in these fields and others it will be damaging. Not necessarly gonna cripple the country but it will cause mass distruption. It's not just a case of saying **** off Scots and Welsh, it will have consequences.

You see there seems to be an understanding that Scotland needs England and England needs no one. Scotland can't survive without England financially... That's BS in my opinion. The two countries are worlds apart, Scotland only has a population of 5 million to accomodate. In persepective London has a population of 7 million..
We (scots) are hugely depended on public services and retail. In the near future it will be the biggest source of our economy. We are one of the leading countries on energy, we are currently in negotitations to shut down 3 nuclear power stations and keep 1. (4 Nuke Stations for 5 million people?!?! c'mon) We can self sustain, what will be Scotlands downfall is its own people. Nothing has ever be done to effectively sort the problems of 'recreational violence' we call it. We have laws that cant get past because Labour government in London has other things to worry about and doesnt listen to our pleas. Not to mention that our own interm-government is CORRUPT AS **** and heavily involved in Glasgow underworld.

But I think not just Scotland but all the UK nations have what it takes to be self sufficient but the people of the UK are rowdy, if Northern Ireland broke off it would be like sending the lambs to slaughter, if Scotland broke off it would need to grow up and be more affective on its lawlessness and stop looking for other people to fix its problems.

[Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Travnia

if Northern Ireland broke off it would be like sending the lambs to slaughter.

What do you mean by that ? The Irish goverment don't want or need N. Ireland.

[Trav]

Government doesnt, but some people do. There are countless factions of IRA splinter groups plus the IRA themselves, as soon as NI isnt part of Britain, the paramilitarys will walk into Belfast and 'get rid' of the Brits. As it is so famously said on the side of buildings all over Belfast and NI.

[Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Travnia

Government doesnt, but some people do. There are countless factions of IRA splinter groups plus the IRA themselves, as soon as NI isnt part of Britain, the paramilitarys will walk into Belfast and 'get rid' of the Brits. As it is so famously said on the side of buildings all over Belfast and NI.

Your forgetting about the UVF ( Ulster Volunteer Force ) and your simplifying the whole issue way to much. N. Ireland now is very differrent from the N.Ireland of ten, twenty years ago ( Those murals hold no resembelence to the opinion of the majority of people ). The Catholic population is now roughly equal with the Prodestant, and set to rise above. This means naturally some people will want reunification of NI with the Republic. In 20 years time you'll see it, exept this time it will be the UVF and not the IRA as the root cause of the conflict ( Unionists ). Either way, NI at some point in the near future in my opinion will be seperated from Britain and in no way will it be as simple or as bloody as you make it out, it will happen gradually. It won't be a question of the big bad IRA strolling into town and rounding up all the Brits and then burning them at the stake.

[The Dude]

I know I'm an american but I've heard somethings about the situations of both Northern Ireland and Scottland. One that Trav does have a point in that if scottland was self sufficient, it would be one of the richest nations not only in europe, but in the world because of what it has but because the money goes to england who then divides it up as it were they do recieve the sort of back end of the stick. Who knows, this rush of money could mean scottland could solve much of its crime problems or it could fatten the wallets of the corrupt.