Abortion?

[Kionae]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slip

Those who choose not to educate themselves deserve to get what they get.

And what about those who are unable to educate themselves because they don't know where to go for information? We're raising a whole generation of kids (who are not only having sex at much younger ages than previous generations, but are reaching puberty sooner) in a school system that often does not teach adequate sexual education courses.

[Ugly Casanova]

Originally Posted by Kionae

And what about those who are unable to educate themselves because they don't know where to go for information? We're raising a whole generation of kids (who are not only having sex at much younger ages than previous generations, but are reaching puberty sooner) in a school system that often does not teach adequate sexual education courses.

They don't know where to go? There's the internet and books ( both things you can get everywhere now-a-days ). Sex is everywhere.

I feel that their parents should educated them. Which is what I think is the problem with scoiety today. Parents have failed at parenting. They've allowed the goverment, television, and other people to do the parenting.

Originally Posted by The Man

all I'm gonna say is that expecting people not to have sex just because there's a small chance a condom might break and birth control might fail is overwhelmingly unrealistic. If those things happen and abortion is illegal, they'll just get back-alley abortions. And in many cases, that'll result in unnecessary harm to them.

During the first five months of pregnancy, the brain and nervous system are not developed enough for there to be anything there to sense pain, so the whole "abortion is cruelty" argument holds no water with me.

Abortion isn't cruelty. There are some cases where it is actually needed.

[The Man]

A lot of parents don't have time to educate their kids. Often times they're both working two jobs just to be able to support their kids, and there are other factors that can get in the way as well. One can argue that such people shouldn't have kids, but that seems to me to be quite an unnecessarily judgmental attitude to take, and in any case it doesn't negate the fact that such people do have kids anyway.

It'd be nice if parents could be counted on to supply their kids with adequate education, but the sad truth is that they often times don't, and therefore it is the government's social responsibility to provide that in their stead. At least if they're going to make any attempt to regulate abortion, as almost every state in the country does.

[Ugly Casanova]

My views on abortion seem a little old fashion, but that's the kind of person I am. I believe in taking full responsibility for ones actions. If it was something that was out of ones control, such as rape. I can understand abortion being an option. If a woman was to have a baby and she was not to survive, action for abortion should be taken. It's a lesser of two evils.

I also believe that the government doesn't know or care about family values or modesty. The government is too busy fighting it’s self. It doesn't care about how outrageous the cost of living as got and that medium wage now-a-days isn't enough to support one person, let alone a family. They're too busy marketing for their next Champaign.

I’m not going to get into the government thing, because that’s a whole different subject. :P

[King Hydro]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slip

Accidents happen and you should be prepared for it. However, everything has a cause and affect. Every action we do always has a consequence. This is common sense.

Females know they can bear children. They should take all caution when engaging in sexual intercourse. Those that lack the responsibility of their actions should take the hardest road and not the easy trail.


Is it small minded of me to say that? No, it’s not.

Look, i weren't taking a shot at you as a person. If you took it that way, then you shouldn't have. I meant it was a small minded sentence.


And just because female's are the one's who actually carry the baby, it doesn't mean that they should solely consider the possibilities and take all the responsibility.
You make it sound like if a girl you slept with got pregnant by accident with you, then you would not want any responsibility.
It's a cliche, but it takes two to tango.


Moreover, we're only human. Not perfect. Why should someone suffer the worst/hardest consequence for making a mistake?
As a child, had you ever dropped something and smashed/broken it? going along your line of thought, behaviour therapy (classical conditioning) would solva that problem. The child drops something by accident. Give them a negative response (harshest: hit them) and then they won't do it again.

I strongly disagree with this. I don't think that people should be let off even if they did make a mistake. But why should it be the worst consequence?

A factor that's been over-looked throughtout this thread is how distressful it is for a lot of women to actually go through wit an abortion.
It's not hunky-dorey. It's certainly not "i dont want this baby, lets have it aborted "
The majority of women dont WANT the abortion, but know its for the best.

[Ugly Casanova]

Originally Posted by Hydro

Look, i weren't taking a shot at you as a person. If you took it that way, then you shouldn't have. I meant it was a small minded sentence.


And just because female's are the one's who actually carry the baby, it doesn't mean that they should solely consider the possibilities and take all the responsibility.
You make it sound like if a girl you slept with got pregnant by accident with you, then you would not want any responsibility.
It's a cliche, but it takes two to tango.

I didn't bring up males, because males aren't the ones getting an abortion. The topic was about how I felt about abortions, not male parenting.

Moreover, we're only human. Not perfect. Why should someone suffer the worst/hardest consequence for making a mistake?
As a child, had you ever dropped something and smashed/broken it? going along your line of thought, behaviour therapy (classical conditioning) would solva that problem. The child drops something by accident. Give them a negative response (harshest: hit them) and then they won't do it again.

This really can't compare to what I said, because there's a huge difference between a child and an adult. When I say adult, I mean someone 18 and above, since teenagers that are pregnant have to get consent for abortion in a few states. A child has yet to know the difference between right and wrong. I may be an accident, but it's still wrong. You have to correct them. You don't hit a child over an accident. You use the accident to teach resposiblitly.

I strongly disagree with this. I don't think that people should be let off even if they did make a mistake. But why should it be the worst consequence?

That's not what I said. The consequence of having a baby may be servere, but it's not the worst. Everything has a cause and affect. You can't have ass through life. If you do, you're not going to learn anything.

A factor that's been over-looked throughtout this thread is how distressful it is for a lot of women to actually go through wit an abortion.
It's not hunky-dorey. It's certainly not "i dont want this baby, lets have it aborted "
The majority of women dont WANT the abortion, but know its for the best.

You'll be surprised. Women have used abortion as a sort of birth control and not even think twice about it. I know a few women who have done this. They refuse to use a condom, because it ''ruins the experince'' and the birthcontorl they want isn't covered by insurance. Nevermind getting birth contorl that is covered by insurance.

[Kionae]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slip

They don't know where to go? There's the internet and books ( both things you can get everywhere now-a-days ). Sex is everywhere.

I feel that their parents should educated them. Which is what I think is the problem with scoiety today. Parents have failed at parenting. They've allowed the goverment, television, and other people to do the parenting.


Abortion isn't cruelty. There are some cases where it is actually needed.

A 13 year old isn't going to hop on over to the library and pick up a book on teenage pregnancy. As for the internet, yes, that works if the child has access to a computer at home (which low income families often do not). Most schools block any websites relating to sex (I couldn't do internet research for a report on breast cancer on the school computers when I was in school, for ****s sake), and while such blocking software is far from infaliable, it is a deterrent.

I completely agree, though... the parents SHOULD educate their children about sex. But ya know what? A lot of them don't, and often it's those same parents that don't want the schools to do it either... and it's going to be a very long time before that changes.

[FadedDreams]

ahhh so much controversy, honestly, I think it all comes down to morals, so it depends on the person. that's just my opinion of course.

[King Hydro]

cba to quote random bits from your last post Freudian, i do see where you're coming from but i just disagree. The examples i used were at the extreme-e nd of what you were saying. Just to outline the point and make it clear.
But even so, i still disagree that one should be punished in a "mediocre-harsh" way.

And even though you know a few females that used abortion as birth control, i guarantee that's not the case. Just because you know a few means nothing. Abortion is a stressful event.

You said there's a huge difference between a child and an adult, but its not uncommon that you find children/teenagers more responsible and mature than some adults.
I like you, and i'd prefer to agree to disagree on this one. I've given my two cents about abortion. Thank **** im not a female... periods.. pregnancy. On the plus side they do have boobs, lol.

[Daryl Falchion]

all I'm gonna say is that expecting people not to have sex just because there's a small chance a condom might break and birth control might fail is overwhelmingly unrealistic. If those things happen and abortion is illegal, they'll just get back-alley abortions. And in many cases, that'll result in unnecessary harm to them.

During the first five months of pregnancy, the brain and nervous system are not developed enough for there to be anything there to sense pain, so the whole "abortion is cruelty" argument holds no water with me.

These echo my thoughts. People are not gonna stop having sex because of the very small percentage of those that end up pregnant. And if people try to force such abortions into the back alleys the resutling damage to the morality of the mother and the safety of both is high. Add to that Aaron's second point about the fact that there is little to support the theory that the "baby" feels any pain in the first few months of pregnancy and I'm concerned that people worry more about the few cells and not about a full human being.

[Bloodcrest]

I do not believe abortion is the correct way to go except in medical emergencies. Not financial emergencies, moral emergencies, or convenience emergencies. Of course, while I'm against it and would be fine with laws passed against it, in the end, it's still the woman's choice regardless of whether or not it's legal or not. But like every other choice in life, it's one with consequences.

[eXo]

I won't vote on the poll, because while I'm not against abortion, I'm not for it.

A lot of people, locally, don't understand my being pro-choice. I support the choice of whether or not to have one, but I'm not telling people to go out and have them. There's a definite difference between "I vote yes for abortions" and "I'm pro-choice."

[Shakan'Dar]

I think abortion is wrong. Whether the embryo feels anything or is caused pain is irrelevant. It has the capability of life, and to take that choice away from anyone but that who's life is concerned is bad. Can any of you say now that you think your mum had the right to pick whether you were to live or not? Granted if it happened to me, I wouldn't exist, but my non-existence would be extremely pissed.

In the case of rape, there is the choice of the "morning after pill." There are contraceptive methods that can be used to counteract "accidents".

The argument that parents don't have time to educate their kids is complete and utter crap. When I was smaller, my dad would work until 11PM, and I'd be asleep when he got home, but does that mean there is absolutely no contact with kids at all? The "no time" argument is just pure laziness and a poor excuse.

[The Man]

Contraceptive methods aren't infallible; even with condoms and the pill, thousands of people will have unwanted pregnancies every year. And if both parents are forced to work two jobs every night, as happens in many American families, then time really is a consideration. Just because your parents were able to manage it (it sounds like your mom had considerably more free time than your dad did) doesn't mean it'll be the case for everyone.

I think ending 'lives' prematurely before they're able to sense pain is far less cruel than forcing them to be born to families who don't want them in the first place.

[Shakan'Dar]

Who's to say that the family won't want the baby. This may sound mushy or cleche, but once the parents are holding their child in their hands, that is usually enough to change their minds, if they had any doubts as to whether they want the child.

[The Man]

Yeah, that usually doesn't happen.

[Shakan'Dar]

Seriously, if you're talking about your CHILD, you'll love it no matter whether you wanted one or not.

[The Man]

Have you ever actually spoken to women who have been forced to go through unwanted pregnancies? Until you have, I think you have very little authority to speak on this matter.

[FadedDreams]

It's obviously an extremely demanding thing to carry a baby, of course, we all can get that picture. I think that there's a definite love for a child that a woman has carried for 9 months, however small it may be. To feel life inside of you must be the most incredible thing in the universe, at least that's what my mother has told me. I wouldn't know, I'm just throwing this thought out there. I think I agree partially on both sides, meaning The Man and Shakan, because yes, there is a love, a woman has grown and created a life inside of her, with the help of a male of course. Then again, if that woman truly did not want that child, then it doesn't matter what she felt during the pregnancy, if that dislike and regret is great enough, then I think it's up to her to decide if she actually wants to take the life of the child before birth, because she'd have to live with the fact that she ended a possible life, even worse yet, one she created. I personally think it'd be better to if she doesn't want it, because if she chose to let it live even knowing that she didn't want it, then that'd simply mean a not so good life for the child.